As I stated below, there was only one hole in the bar free. I would have had to double up wires in other holes to make another empty hole to do that. That could have been a solution, I just chose a different one that I felt was a better solution for my install.
You would have to drill out the lug hole more than a 32nd. The difference between #4 solid and #4 stranded is more than a 32nd of an inch. To get all the strands in there I felt I would need to drill it out about a 16th more.
I looked at both of those solutions and neither seemed like a good idea to me. Reducing the strands into the block would lessen its capacity.If I wanted that I would have run the next size smaller wire. As far as drilling it out, the bar is made of solid copper (ie its a soft metal) drilling out any of the threads would greatly weaken the lug screws ability to hold the wire. You may feel that either of those will work for you. I was looking for a solution that was basically the best I could.
im not trying to be sarcastic, but couldnt you have just cut off one or two of the strands in the stranded wire, to make it fit in the hole? OR - just drilled out the hole in the existing lug to accept the larger wire? im guessuing were talking about a 32nd of an inch difference in wire diameter, if that. im really just asking - cause im about to buy a unit of my own.
I think it will be a 60' run, so I may not need #4 & stick with the #6 wire. I'll see what the electrician is planning on using. Again, thanks for your video it was informative.
I ran 2 inch conduit for my power cables and 1 in for the control/low voltage wires. I totally agree that when dealing with electric if in doubt got up to the next size.
I ran 2 inch conduit for my power cables and 1 in for the control/low voltage wires. I totally agree that when dealing with electric if in doubt got up to the next size.
I ran 2 inch conduit for my power cables and 1 in for the control/low voltage wires. I totally agree that when dealing with electric if in doubt got up to the next size.
Shouldn't that ground bar buss been made of copper for less I/R drop?
Also, I heard that the Home Depot package with the 20KW (5875) generator is still being packaged with the 200 Amp. ATS & still causing the same problem. I am having one installed in the next 2 weeks & I hope my Generac installer has that under control.
I'm not sure why you would use SOOW wire? as that type of wire is for indoor flexible applications. I used THHW wire even though all my wiring is inside conduit. You can try searching for livewiresupply or westwayelectricsupply. Both seem to sell them online in bulk and not singles. They might sell you one if you call them. In the video I think I mention the place online I got mine from.
I am putting in a 20KW Gen which is If I understand correctly i can use 4/4 Soow? would this be sufficient? also I didnt see where to purchase the CB-23. Do you have a link?
As far as the #4 ground. I could have maybe gotten by with a smaller ground, but I feel better that its the same size as a current carrying conductor(s). My biggest harp on this is that the transfer switch lugs take a min of #4. The transfer switch goes up to 200amp for this unit (packaged by Generac together). So maybe they should try and find a transfer switch that only goes up to 150 or 100 amps so that the wire size that works better with the genset would work also in the transfer switch.
I'm not so sure about the pro's, but I think #10 for the neutral that in my case would have been 100ft long carrying the return load from many 120V circuits would create a problem. If you were running all 240V items then you might be able to get by with #10 since they wouldn't be carrying the return load back to the generator. From my experience these types of home generators carry more 120V loads than 240V loads. I did read the instructions!! I even called Generac and they agreed with #4.
Since my unit is 1.5 years old now I don't know if they have changed the bus bars or are still shipped with the same limitations. Generac is aware of this video as are alot of other generator related sites that I can see linked to this video in the stats. I'm glad you found the video helpful and if you determine this is the right solution for you then this video has served its purpose. If you find the new generators have resolved this issue then please let me know, so I can update things.
Great video. The large mass of the buss bar also adds heat dissipation. glad to see I am not the only "crazy" guy that tries to do things right. Thanks for the effort, will be doing this exact hookup early september.
My best guess would be that 1/0 Alum would be very hard to get hooked up to ground/neutral busses even with my modded bars. That size alum is very tough to route in such a small space. I would stick with the copper equiv for this hookup.
I feel the #4 was the right size. We recently had a 5 day outage in 100+ degree heat and I checked the voltage drop from generator to transfer switch which was very low. That was my initial goal was to have as little voltage drop as possbile within reason. I am a IT guy by trade and have alot of network gear in my home. So for things like battery backups and such voltage drop is a big issue. It was very nice to have AC and be able to watch streaming movies from the network storage device.
Recently when the heat wave rolled through the north east in the beginning of July we had a five day power outage. My setup ran for 5 days straight and experienced no problems. During that outage I checked the amperage and voltage and was very pleased at the steady load and very low voltage drop from generator to transfer switch that the #4 copper wire gave me. Lets just say the Mrs. was very happy when the AC kept running and she didn't have to suffer in the 100+ degree heat.
On my unit there was only one hole available for a neutral wire (maybe that has changed in the newer models). In order to use that method I would have had to double up two other neutral wires into one of the holes. I didn't want to do that, so I used this method. This may not be for everyone out there, but it is one solution that will pass inspection with no issues.
I disagree, my local code allows only 1 ground rod per home. Once you hit that ground & bond point you turn into 4 wires. So I agree with his setup 100% and funny how 2 people can resolve to the same solution. I install these units all the time and do the exact same thing he done here in the video. Pass inspection every time! Good informative video, thanks!
As I stated below, there was only one hole in the bar free. I would have had to double up wires in other holes to make another empty hole to do that. That could have been a solution, I just chose a different one that I felt was a better solution for my install.
ReplyDeleteAll you had to do was get 2 auxiliary neutral lugs. The lug has 2 tabs that stick out and go under 2 screws on the existing ground bar.
ReplyDeleteI'm an electrician not a DIYer.
You would have to drill out the lug hole more than a 32nd. The difference between #4 solid and #4 stranded is more than a 32nd of an inch. To get all the strands in there I felt I would need to drill it out about a 16th more.
ReplyDeleteI looked at both of those solutions and neither seemed like a good idea to me. Reducing the strands into the block would lessen its capacity.If I wanted that I would have run the next size smaller wire. As far as drilling it out, the bar is made of solid copper (ie its a soft metal) drilling out any of the threads would greatly weaken the lug screws ability to hold the wire. You may feel that either of those will work for you. I was looking for a solution that was basically the best I could.
ReplyDeleteim not trying to be sarcastic, but couldnt you have just cut off one or two of the strands in the stranded wire, to make it fit in the hole? OR - just drilled out the hole in the existing lug to accept the larger wire? im guessuing were talking about a 32nd of an inch difference in wire diameter, if that. im really just asking - cause im about to buy a unit of my own.
ReplyDeleteI think it will be a 60' run, so I may not need #4 & stick with the #6 wire. I'll see what the electrician is planning on using. Again, thanks for your video it was informative.
ReplyDeleteI ran 2 inch conduit for my power cables and 1 in for the control/low voltage wires. I totally agree that when dealing with electric if in doubt got up to the next size.
ReplyDeleteI ran 2 inch conduit for my power cables and 1 in for the control/low voltage wires. I totally agree that when dealing with electric if in doubt got up to the next size.
ReplyDeleteI ran 2 inch conduit for my power cables and 1 in for the control/low voltage wires. I totally agree that when dealing with electric if in doubt got up to the next size.
ReplyDeleteThe nice part is that if they run into trouble you can understand what the issue is about and can kinda nudge them in the fix you prefer.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't that ground bar buss been made of copper for less I/R drop?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I heard that the Home Depot package with the 20KW (5875) generator is still being packaged with the 200 Amp. ATS & still causing the same problem. I am having one installed in the next 2 weeks & I hope my Generac installer has that under control.
Thanks for the video!
I'm not sure why you would use SOOW wire? as that type of wire is for indoor flexible applications. I used THHW wire even though all my wiring is inside conduit. You can try searching for livewiresupply or westwayelectricsupply. Both seem to sell them online in bulk and not singles. They might sell you one if you call them. In the video I think I mention the place online I got mine from.
ReplyDeleteI am putting in a 20KW Gen which is If I understand correctly i can use 4/4 Soow?
ReplyDeletewould this be sufficient?
also I didnt see where to purchase the CB-23. Do you have a link?
Much Thanks for your excellent Idea.
As far as the #4 ground. I could have maybe gotten by with a smaller ground, but I feel better that its the same size as a current carrying conductor(s). My biggest harp on this is that the transfer switch lugs take a min of #4. The transfer switch goes up to 200amp for this unit (packaged by Generac together). So maybe they should try and find a transfer switch that only goes up to 150 or 100 amps so that the wire size that works better with the genset would work also in the transfer switch.
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure about the pro's, but I think #10 for the neutral that in my case would have been 100ft long carrying the return load from many 120V circuits would create a problem. If you were running all 240V items then you might be able to get by with #10 since they wouldn't be carrying the return load back to the generator. From my experience these types of home generators carry more 120V loads than 240V loads. I did read the instructions!! I even called Generac and they agreed with #4.
ReplyDeleteSince my unit is 1.5 years old now I don't know if they have changed the bus bars or are still shipped with the same limitations. Generac is aware of this video as are alot of other generator related sites that I can see linked to this video in the stats. I'm glad you found the video helpful and if you determine this is the right solution for you then this video has served its purpose. If you find the new generators have resolved this issue then please let me know, so I can update things.
ReplyDeleteGreat video. The large mass of the buss bar also adds heat dissipation. glad to see I am not the only "crazy" guy that tries to do things right.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the effort, will be doing this exact hookup early september.
My best guess would be that 1/0 Alum would be very hard to get hooked up to ground/neutral busses even with my modded bars. That size alum is very tough to route in such a small space. I would stick with the copper equiv for this hookup.
ReplyDeleteWhat about 1/0 SER Aluminum
ReplyDeleteI feel the #4 was the right size. We recently had a 5 day outage in 100+ degree heat and I checked the voltage drop from generator to transfer switch which was very low. That was my initial goal was to have as little voltage drop as possbile within reason. I am a IT guy by trade and have alot of network gear in my home. So for things like battery backups and such voltage drop is a big issue. It was very nice to have AC and be able to watch streaming movies from the network storage device.
ReplyDeleteRecently when the heat wave rolled through the north east in the beginning of July we had a five day power outage. My setup ran for 5 days straight and experienced no problems. During that outage I checked the amperage and voltage and was very pleased at the steady load and very low voltage drop from generator to transfer switch that the #4 copper wire gave me. Lets just say the Mrs. was very happy when the AC kept running and she didn't have to suffer in the 100+ degree heat.
ReplyDeleteOn my unit there was only one hole available for a neutral wire (maybe that has changed in the newer models). In order to use that method I would have had to double up two other neutral wires into one of the holes. I didn't want to do that, so I used this method. This may not be for everyone out there, but it is one solution that will pass inspection with no issues.
ReplyDeleteI disagree, my local code allows only 1 ground rod per home. Once you hit that ground & bond point you turn into 4 wires. So I agree with his setup 100% and funny how 2 people can resolve to the same solution. I install these units all the time and do the exact same thing he done here in the video. Pass inspection every time! Good informative video, thanks!
ReplyDeleteI am putting the same generator in. I am also 100ft from the transfer switch. Is #4 really big enough or do I need #2
ReplyDelete